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[CLOSED] Book a speech: specify the expected delivery
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karen



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Joined Date: 2007-07-11, 09:54
Posts: 827

Post Post subject [CLOSED] Book a speech: specify the expected delivery   Posted 29 Jul 09, 17:06    Reply with quote

Per Paul Osborn's advice, may I suggest that a member may select the actual date instead of the number of weeks ahead when booking a speech!!!

I am poor in calculating the number of weeks ahead.

Another Club is clever to use a different way to avoid confusion. See below.


Thanks and cheers,
Karen

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KaiS



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Joined Date: 2008-09-06, 21:21
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Location: Barcelona, Spain

Post Post subject Re: Book a speech: why not specify the expected delivery dat   Posted 29 Jul 09, 17:44    Reply with quote

So many ideas ... even on this one little popup page.

I agree that a month & day picker would be nice. Ideally the VPE gets notified about the new speech request for a specific date.

Ideally the member sees the future dates of his club(s) meetings and if there are any free speaking slots or not and when exactly.

Ideally for each club, the member sees the date when he or she last spoke, and how many other members in that club have not spoken for a longer period - which should manage expectations in those clubs where speaker slots are on high demand.

Ideally the member sees the speeches that he/she recently delivered, even if these speeches have not yet been confirmed via the "Actuals" page, and also any speeches that are already requested (unscheduled) or even scheduled for the future. This would avoid requesting a speech multiple times by mistake, and should instead redirect the member to update the title of the existing speech request, or give the option to notify the VPE / TME / meeting manager.

Ideally the same page automatically pre-selects the next logical speech project that a member would probably want to request, while keeping the possibility to pick another project for situations like jumping forwards and backwards in an advanced manual, or re-doing the same project multiple times. Example: after 5 speeches in the CC manual, you probably want to request speech project 6 in the CC manual, don't you?

If the VPE schedules a speech for a member, he should see the member's name in that popup. That's currently missing.

What else should go in here?

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KaiS



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Post Post subject Re: Book a speech: why not specify the expected delivery dat   Posted 29 Jul 09, 17:53    Reply with quote

one more: if the VPE "requests" the speech for one of the members, the member should get a notification email, especially if the speech title is left blank. This email should have a direct link for changing the title.

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karen



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Post Post subject Re: Book a speech: why not specify the expected delivery dat   Posted 29 Jul 09, 19:00    Reply with quote

KaiS wrote:

Ideally the member sees the future dates of his club(s) meetings and if there are any free speaking slots or not and when exactly.


If a Club makes use of the Sign-up form, it will be clear to the potential speech-makers.
e.g. https://easy-speak.org/memberchart.php?c=835&chart=5

I think if the expected delivery dates are not 100% correct, it doesn't matter too much. Somehow it is better to let VPE know, say, "I'd like to deliver a speech after mid Sep." and pick a date of 15th Sep even though meeting dated 15th Sep doesn't exist.

Anyway, VPE is able to override the expected delivery date and assign a speaking slot to a speaker earlier than stated.

KaiS wrote:

Ideally for each club, the member sees the date when he or she last spoke, and how many other members in that club have not spoken for a longer period - which should manage expectations in those clubs where speaker slots are on high demand.

Ideally the member sees the speeches that he/she recently delivered, even if these speeches have not yet been confirmed via the "Actuals" page, and also any speeches that are already requested (unscheduled) or even scheduled for the future. .....


I think "View CC progress" should help.
https://easy-speak.org/memberchart.php?c=230&chart=2&print=1

or as what Paul suggested,

"Can't they use this page to check up on scheduled speeches? https://easy-speak.org/tm_all_speeches.php.

At this moment, we are still not that keen on pushing our members to "book a speech" via the system. As long as an expected date is specified, it helps avoid confusion.

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KaiS



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Post Post subject Re: Book a speech: why not specify the expected delivery dat   Posted 29 Jul 09, 19:04    Reply with quote

Yeah, all the suggestion that I listed further up are things that are already available in E-S, but somewhere else, on other pages.

Paul brought up the idea of wizard-driven workflow. So the "My next speech" workflow would have all that functionality in one place... I'm allowed to dream, am I not? ;)

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karen



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Post Post subject Re: Book a speech: why not specify the expected delivery dat   Posted 29 Jul 09, 19:14    Reply with quote

Great dreamer!

I might be too practical ;D

I like the term, "My Next Speech" and this suits a simple E-S user's expectations.

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PaulO



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Post Post subject Re: Book a speech: why not specify the expected delivery dat   Posted 30 Jul 09, 10:00    Reply with quote

Whoa!!
Who let that crazy DEVELOPER Kai into the USER forum (hey...just kidding !!!...Very Happy)

OK - a lot of ideas here, so let's break it down. First off, there are at least two different workflows here - the one if the member is requesting for themselves, and the one where the VP-E is fulfilling a request by a member too lazy to log on themselves. Seeing as we're talking about requesting speeches, we might also throw in Assigning Speeches as well, as they are somewhat related.


Workflow Analysis
Let's examine some of the actual workflows, shall we? I apologize in advance for the occasional flippancy...but the humor sometimes helps.

Eastside TM
Our current (manual) process is that a sign-up sheet is passed around, and we pencil in when we want to do a speech in an empty slot (we plan 6-8 weeks ahead). If all slots are filled, you can put yourself on the hot seat in case someone cancels. The VP-E reviews the requests, and sends you a nasty email if you've put down for more than one a month (our current limit, based on the number of speeches/night and members).

Victoria TM
Karen's workflow appears to be that people email the VP-E saying they'd like to do a speech, and when they want to do it. She enters the request, backing out the date with the number of weeks to go. Presumably then she would hop over to the meeting, and assign the speech she'd just requested herself.

System-as-Designed
The good people in District 71, however, would appear to get urges every now again to write a speech, and they know that it will take them 2 weeks, or maybe 3 to atually write and learn it. They hope that the VP-E will assign them a free slot soon after they've completed it. Presumably they send over a bottle of malt whiskey or box of chocolates to the VP-E to get a favorable date which is not too long after they've finished the speech, in case they forget it, or lose their notes.

Clever Hongkongers
The "Clever" club in Honkers ask members to request a certain date that they'd like to give their speech. Whether there are any slots on that date for a speech that haven't been assigned yet, who knows? Presumably they have learned from District 71, and follow up the request with malt whiskey or chocolates.

Soooo......what does THAT tell you? To me, it tells me that we don't need to stick a whole load of additional information on the page. We need either to step way, way back and start again...OR...do some kind of workaround to fix some of the most obvious problems.


Stepping Back: automating the Eastside process.
1) As a member, I'd want to see the sign-up sheets for the next two months (or as many as were available), and I'd want to be able to volunteer to do a speech on any day that there were open slots, or be wait-listed (on the hotseat) for days that did not have open slots. At the time of the speech, I may not know which speech from which manual I was doing, and almost definitely would not know the title - I just know I want to do a speech.
2) The VP-E needs to approve the request, so the VP-E should get an email that the speech had been requested
3) The VP-E approves (or denies) the request. If denies, s/he may want to suggest alternative dates. Status is changed in the agenda from 'requested' to 'approved', 'denied' or 'proposed' (if a new date was suggested) Email to that effect is sent to Requestor, who can accept or reject a proposal (no action required if speech as been denied). if speech has been denied, it would go into the speech queue, waiting the VP-E to propose a date for it.
4) If speech has been accepted by the VP-E, then as part of the reminder emails, the requestor would get bugged until they had filled in the Workbook, speech number, and title of the speech. Defaults of the next speech in the manual could be provided. Warnings of a 'repeated' speech (within say 12 months) could be provided
5) On the agenda, the system would automatically assign speech order by seniority - most junior member first (that's how we do it at Eastside - not sure if this is standard, or would need a configuration parameter), but the VP-E and/or Toastmaster/Meeting Manager can change the order of the speeches (override), and can 'deny' a speech at any time (and the Requestor can Reject a speech at any time)

EXTENSION: if the VP-E is actually making the Request on behalf of hte member, then we enter the above workflow at stage (3) and the status of the speech is 'proposed'. Thereafter, the workflow is the same.

Looks complex and a huge change request, doesn't it? But I rather suspect it could be acheived by stringing together existing screens, slightly tweaked.


Workaround 1 - assumes biggest problem is Ready vs Assigned Date
Allow the user to specify the date of the meeting that they want to give the speech by adding aa dropdown to the current Request screen, populated with dates of upcoming meetings, BUT ONLY DATES WHICH HAVE FREE SLOTS ARE SHOWN (or all dates are shown, but some are marked 'Hot Seat' if other slots are full). The VP-E sees these dates in the existing application as 'ready-by dates'. The (strong) expectation is that the VP-E will assign the speech on the date that it is ready-by. If not, then frantic emailing and phone-calling will ensue, so that a mutually agreed upon date can be arrived at.

So looking at this from both angles - the complete rewrite, and the workaround - I'm not overly convinced of the need for a lot of additional information on the screen, Kai. Instead, the screen should be focussed on the main task, which is to negotiate a date for the speech to occur on, and this negotation takes place between the member and the VP-E

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Paul Osborn, ACS, ALB
Treasurer, Redmond Nights TM
Toastmasters International
Where Leaders Are Made
Phone: +1 425-605-7707
www.toastmasters.org
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PaulO



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Post Post subject Re: Book a speech: why not specify the expected delivery dat   Posted 30 Jul 09, 10:04    Reply with quote

Sorry if it wasn't clear, but what I'm hoping for now is a verification on what workflow accurately describes what YOUR club does, and then we can discuss alternative solutions to the two that I proposed.

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KaiS



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Post Post subject Re: Book a speech: why not specify the expected delivery dat   Posted 30 Jul 09, 10:43    Reply with quote

Good information about how the different clubs operate.

A full blown "approval" process looks like a bigger change, and I know that Malcolm is not in favor of Members putting themselves on a particular speaker slot. We discussed that a while back, here. However, we almost have this approval process implemented if we combine enhancements in this speech request form together with some other enhancements on what is displayed in the agenda / assign speakers & sign-up sheet pages. A requested speech where the "requested by" date MATCHES the meeting date or is earlier should automatically be shown as a possible candidate. Simple. It's not a committment, the VPE can accept it or asign someone else's speech.

What I also learned from the Eastside process step 1 is "I may not know which speech from which manual I (will be) doing" - which is very valid comment. I've been in the situation where I had a speaker slot, and changed the assignment very last minute. Currently the E-S way of working requires another speech to be requested, and the VPE or Meeting Organizer (MO) to swap them around. Aftwards you delete the original speech, or change the date. Not very elegant. I suggest the member should be allowed to simply change the book and assignment, again coupled with an email to the VPE, MO and TME -- especially if it has different timing. (Advanced manual speech project exist with 2-3 minutes ... up to 40 minutes!)

2) on the email we all agree.

3) here the full approval process steps are missing, if we not add or modify the database structure. But we already have "Proposed" - which is a speech assigned to a future agenda waiting for the acceptance of the member, and we have "Requested" (not scheduled), and "Approved" - when it is put into the agenda. Close enough, I'd say. Changing the database structure is difficult.

4) agree with the bugging. I need to check and test what we have already on this topic.

5) agree on the ordering and override.

One tiny code change, that I would call a "quick win" is the following: if the member or VPE presses the "request a speech" button on the meeting agenda page rather than on the profile, then the meeting date should automatically populated. This should help any workflow - those where the member requests a speech, and those where the VPE takes the printed sign-up sheet with names pensiled in from yesterday's meeting and then puts them into E-S.

I think for now I have enough pointers for improvements on the speech requesting / booking topic. I'll look for time to get cracking on putting this in, and report here how it goes or if I need further input.

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KaiS



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Post Post subject Re: Book a speech: why not specify the expected delivery dat   Posted 30 Jul 09, 10:50    Reply with quote

The VPE or MO currently doen't even have the button for request speeches for the members on the Agenda page. I shall add them. Currently he/she is forced to jump over the user list and press the little request a speech button there. Further jumping is required to check which is the next logical speech project. I will eliminate those hoops. ;)

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PaulO



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Post Post subject Re: Book a speech: why not specify the expected delivery dat   Posted 30 Jul 09, 11:42    Reply with quote

Great work, Kai - you have digested the essence of what I was trying to say. Just a few more comments...

1)
KaiS wrote:
One tiny code change, that I would call a "quick win" is the following: if the member or VPE presses the "request a speech" button on the meeting agenda page rather than on the profile, then the meeting date should automatically populated. This should help any workflow - those where the member requests a speech, and those where the VPE takes the printed sign-up sheet with names pensiled in from yesterday's meeting and then puts them into E-S.

To make this 'Easy Win' even more powerful, it might really help to MOVE the [Request Speech] button. It is currently top-right - completely out of context. I'm thinking it would be a LOT clearer if it was closer to the Role Assignment Information table. Actually, I think the same applies to all the buttons on this page. I'll submit another enhancement request so you can comment on a new thread - maybe I'm missing something about how this page is constructed, which is dictating the button positions...

2a) Of course a REALLY quick win would be to change the wording from 'Ready' to 'Proposed'. eg: https://easy-speak.org/tm_all_speeches.php would have columns
....[Speech Title] [Requested] [Proposed] [Scheduled]

2b) "I will be ready to present this speech.." changes to "I propose to present this speech..." on https://easy-speak.org/tm_speech.php?mode=add

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PaulO



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Post Post subject Re: Book a speech: why not specify the expected delivery dat   Posted 30 Jul 09, 23:20    Reply with quote

I've just been trying to work out how I can prompt my users to Request Speeches online. Because we are in early adoption, I really wanted to point them at the member Speeches chart (because that would immediately show them one of the more coooler features of E-S, from whence they could click the Add Speech icon next to their name, and ...Voila!!'

UNFORTUNATELY....it appears the Request Speech icon is not available (even for the logged in User's name) unless you are some sort of God...

Shall I leave this here, as it is part of Requesting Speeches, or do you want me to post as a separate Enhancement??

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Paul Osborn, ACS, ALB
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Toastmasters International
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Phone: +1 425-605-7707
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malcolmw



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Post Post subject Re: Book a speech: why not specify the expected delivery dat   Posted 30 Jul 09, 23:26    Reply with quote

Quote:
UNFORTUNATELY....it appears the Request Speech icon is not available (even for the logged in User's name) unless you are some sort of God...


The little green man SHOULD be there for a member to use in the userlist and the speech chart - but I just checked on the test server and you are correct it doesn't show on the speech chart - but it will later this evening. Cool

Malcolm

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PaulO



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Post Post subject Re: Book a speech: why not specify the expected delivery dat   Posted 30 Jul 09, 23:35    Reply with quote

Joy oh Joy! Thanks Malcolm!

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malcolmw



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Post Post subject Re: Book a speech: why not specify the expected delivery dat   Posted 30 Jul 09, 23:35    Reply with quote

Quote:

The little green man SHOULD be there for a member to use in the userlist and the speech chart - but I just checked on the test server and you are correct it doesn't show on the speech chart - but it will later this evening. Cool


Fixed

M

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